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Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
John and Bob discuss the psychological, spiritual, and emotional complexities of leadership failure within modern religious systems, especially those rooted in deliverance ministry culture. Drawing from personal experience, including their involvement in the rise of Kansas City Fellowship and later counseling roles, they reflect on the lack of accountability structures, the pursuit of affirmation and significance, and the dangers of narcissism in top-down church models. The conversation reveals how brokenness, inner struggles, and unresolved trauma often drive individuals into positions of leadership, where they are both idolized and isolated—making failure almost inevitable.
The conversation also addresses the broader cultural shifts in Christianity, including the rise and fall of megachurches, scandals from the 1980s to the present, and the recurring cycles of ministerial burnout and moral collapse. They critique the corporate church structure for fostering performance-driven personas disconnected from genuine community and accountability. Bob introduces the concept of “The Joseph Company” as a response to this crisis, working with leaders who have hit bottom and are seeking restoration. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of humility, teachability, and relational healing as the only sustainable path forward for both leaders and followers.
00:00 Introduction
01:09 Understanding Perspective Through Conflict and Feedback
06:06 Black-and-White Thinking and the Struggle for Moral Clarity
13:04 Bob’s Ministry Background and the Roots of Disillusionment
17:02 Scandals of the 1980s and the Human Side of Failure
23:07 The Real Reasons Leaders Enter Ministry
29:57 Deliverance Culture and the Illusion of Instant Healing
37:05 Midlife Collapse, Burnout, and the Need for Counseling
43:13 Hero Worship and Congregational Complicity
50:01 Leadership, Accountability, and the Absence of Humility
54:33 The Business Model of Church and Narcissistic Structures
59:34 A Return to Simplicity, Relationship, and Inner Renewal
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